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Speaker 1: Why did you actually choose plant pathology?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good question.

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There are many different areas I could have picked,

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but I had a very good professor who taught us how actually plants get sick like humans, like animals,

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plants also get a lot of diseases. Bacterial diseases, viral diseases, fungal diseases, a myriad of diseases.

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And if they get sick then we have no food, so that was really in a simplified way, that was the reason.

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And I found it very interesting also, the science of plant pathology, which is diseases of plants.

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Speaker 1: You went to South America. What did you do in South America?

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Speaker 2: So, I studied my undergraduate degree in Ethiopia and I got scholarship went to United States.

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That's what I really wanted to do and so I studied there and I had I did my masters degree

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and my PhD degree in America and I had, also after my PhD, I had a job as a scientist in the USA, in Cornell University.

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So after that I was recruited by an international Agricultural Research Center based in Colombia.

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So I had never been in Colombia before. They approached me to consider a job there.

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So I was employed by the organization as a senior scientist and I moved there in Colombia. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What did you do in Colombia?

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Speaker 2: In Colombia so I was a senior scientist in charge of diseases of forage plants.

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And it is a very enjoyable setting, enjoyable job.

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Because everything we did was to solve a problem for society, particularly for developing countries.

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And it is a great phase for me and I get to learn a new language in Spanish.

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The people are nice and the country is beautiful, and I met my husband there also.

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He was at the same time

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when I was recruited from United States the same company recruited him also from the Netherlands from his country,

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and we met one day apart, we arrived there one day apart, basically yeah.

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So, and then our daughter was also born there, in Colombia, so and both of us agree

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and was a scientist was in the organization also, so it was very good.

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And we, I feel we made a lot of difference for people.

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We were working for, basically the developing world in South America, in Asia,

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in Africa just based in Columbia so it was a very good time.

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Speaker 1: You also educated a lot of Chinese students.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: So you became a friend of China.

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Speaker 2: Yes I did so I think one of the exciting things is that in that organization you are a scientist for any

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developing countries that need your skills and technologies.

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So you are not particularly working for just one country or the other.

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So, many different students, graduate students, came to work with me. So among those was many Chinese.

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So the Chinese were partially funded by their government. So they came to do their research in my laboratory.

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So they are really hard-working people, and I spend considerable amount of time also training them.

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So that was my one of the success stories and I had Columbian students, I had Brazilians, I had many different kinds.

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Speaker 1: The Chinese, well, it wasn't unnoticed that you educated a lot of Chinese people.

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You got a medal from the Chinese.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Why did you decide to go to Africa then?

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So, that was a turning point for me.

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So all those years, I was in Columbia for 15 years and so agree was a scientist in the organization.

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I was promoted also in the organization. So for my career, it was great.

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But at the back of my mind, I was also thinking, and really contemplating, also, what is actually my impact for Africa.

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Coming from a poor village knowing how people live, struggle to make ends meet.

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So I was always questioning also whether that Colombia needs me more than Africa needed me.

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But I think the turning point came in September 2006 as the Chinese gave me their highest award,

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what they call the Friendship Award, for the role I had played in their agricultural research and developments

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Speaker 2: And the impact basically, through the graduate students I trained,

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who had become very successful scientists back in China. So, at the ceremony, there was a big ceremony there.

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And on the stage, when it was announced that at that time from Ethiopia and I made this contribution to China.

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It was another proud moment for me. I was embarrassed.

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I was from a poor country and I was getting a gold medal from the premier of China for impact made in China.

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and I was cautioning on the [INAUDIBLE] Does actually China need me more than Africa?

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So that was the stage actually on the stage right there I decided okay I'm going back to Africa. So yeah.

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Speaker 1: You became finally in Africa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And director of this insect institute. Why an insect institute?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so when I came back to Africa I was immediately the head of this institute.

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So I was recruited by another international organization based here in Nairobi to establish agricultural power

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technology center for Africa, funded by the Canadian government.

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So, it was a tough a job, but after the task but it give me opportunity to do something from scratch for Africa.

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So I did that for five and a half years to establish the center. It became a very successful center.

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I did the lot of money.

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And send, I save up the program And so on, so then I was approached by another organization,

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if I could take the position of a Vice President for Programs.

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So I accepted that, but it was not a research organization, so I wanted to go back into the research organization.

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This opportunity came to head ICIPE, the International Center of Insect Physiology and Ecology.

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So I accepted that and so it is a perfect place for me with perfect programs for Africa. So why insects?

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So people often ask me, wow, the whole organization for just insects? And why insects? That's what people ask, yeah.

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But, yeah, this is a unique organization.

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I think, as far as I know, the only organization that deals 100% on insects,

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because insects are extremely important in our lives.

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They are by far the most diverse and the most abundant animals on earth. They play various roles in our lives.

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If you take bees, they play a critical role in pollinating our crops.

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So if bees have to disappear tomorrow, our food source would be in big, big trouble.

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So they pollinate our crops, like bees.

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Insects also play a critical role as food source, food for humans and feed for animals.

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So about 2 billion people in Africa, Latin America, Asia, consume insects as a source of protein.

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So I believe this is also actually a source that has to be mainstream all across, I think,

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the globe as a good source of high quality protein. Also bees give us also a lot of things, food, feed.

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I mean, insects and wax and a range of things.

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Insects also, they have also ecologically also there are insects that control other harmful insects also.

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Insects play role also in degrading waste, plant waste, animal waste, and so on.

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So in fact, if we don't have insects, our world will be a lot of, really mess, with a lot of garbage.

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A lot of waste that we put which is not being degraded by some microbes and insects.

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But unfortunately, also that insects also are harmful to also humans, animals, to crops.

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They transmit a lot of disease.

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Small things like mosquitoes kill more people every day than global conflicts put together.

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So it hurts me to think with all the technologies we have, humans going, mankind going to the moon, going to space,

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and so on. We are unable to defeat a tiny mosquito, to kill.

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Every 80 seconds in Africa, children die from malaria, from a lot of mosquito transmitted diseases, dengue,

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and yellow fever. And a lot of diseases come through that, transmitted through insects.

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The same for animal diseases also. A wide range of animal diseases are transmitted through insects.

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So climate change is an issue.

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A recent report for example says, by the World Bank just came out, if we don't deal with climate change by 2030,

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100 million more people will go into poverty.

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So I think, I believe personally, that I think one of the biggest impacts of climate change is going to be insects,

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also. As the world gets warmer, insects are going to shift also to warmer places.

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A lot of African problems are going to be also problems somewhere else as it gets warm.

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If we have to make the planet livable for us, in the many years ahead.

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If we have to manage our food security, nutritional security.

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If we have to develop the planet, we have to develop for the insects.

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For the benefits and the harmful parts of what insects provide, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Are people aware of somehow of this wide variety of properties that insects have?

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Speaker 2: Mm, no, unfortunately not. I think we have to make people aware of that, I think we have to teach.

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Speaker 1: Would you mind repeating my question? Sort of because otherwise you answer with yes or no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So you think are people aware somehow of the wide variety of properties?

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Speaker 2: No, I think people are not aware of all this variety of issues associated with insects.

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So for example, if you take bees, almost everybody knows that honey comes from bees.

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But a lot of people don't know that bees are critical for food securities, they pollinate crops.

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Without bees and you don't have enough and some of the plants they require pollination by bees.

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So, no, people don't know a lot about this.

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And I think we have to teach it in school, in elementary school, in high school, in universities.

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And I think in the general public, also to be aware of what insects do for people, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Are there properties you think that are very beneficial from insects?

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I mean, in terms of pharmaceutical properties, or anything they do well for us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah insects play a lot of roles.

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For example, there are insects that are uniquely found antibiotics, insects that uniquely produce

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or have antibiotics for example.

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Speaker 1: Should we do it again?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Can you mention some other, well, quite unique properties that we are not very aware of?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, insects have a number of other uses as well. For example, the antibiotics for people, for animals.

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I don't think we have investigated enough the unique antibiotics that exist in insects.

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There are also other things that, for example, this insect called the soldier fly.

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There are very good at processing a lot of waste, and converting them to fertilizer.

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So yeah, there is a wide variety of use we can make out of insects.

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Some of the airplane, helicopter design comes from insects, insect architecture, yeah. Yeah, so.

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Speaker 1: What the uniqueness of your institute?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the uniqueness for me of this, of ICIPE, is one.

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It is focused on really solving agricultural and housing constraints in Africa.

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But what we produce is not just unique for Africa, it can be used globally.

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It is also, we also focus on very environmentally-friendly and sustainable technologies and products.

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We have, for example, over the years, generated biopesticides, pesticides that come naturally,

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from a naturally existing fungus. And we manage,

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Speaker 2: Insects, beneficial, not beneficial, harmful insects.

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So these products now, are commercialized together with, in partnership with the private sector.

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And so, it's registered now, they are registered in many countries in Africa.

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And currently, they're being registered, so, in the European Union.

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So what we produce, very environmentally-friendly, and not contaminating the environment.

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Not harming other beneficial insects. So it's not only just useful for Africa.

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But this can be used anywhere else, as well, in Europe, in North America.

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So we are unique, in the sense that we focus on technologies and products that are environmentally-friendly.

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And that are also sustainable for a long term or so. And that keeps a natural equilibrium also, yeah.

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Speaker 1: How important is your institute for Africa, maybe for the world, and how would you describe it?

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Speaker 2: I think it's very, very important.

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I often ask my staff, that if we cease to exist tomorrow, would people line up asking for reopening of ICIPE?

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And the answer is constantly yes. Because we are making a major impact, all across Africa.

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And we are focused on major constraints. Constraints that are really an impediment for agricultural, and those issues.

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So, is a very important organization for the continent, and globally as well, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Why is it in Africa?

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Speaker 2: Why is it in Africa, good question. It's based in Africa because it was founded by an African.

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It was founded 45 years ago, in 1970, by a very renowned entomologist, insect scientist.

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A professor, a Kenyan professor.

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So it was founded as an international center, a small center within a university, and it expanded.

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It expanded, and so today we have multiple nationalities of scientists and technical staff.

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And reaching out across Africa and making impact.

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And what I like about the organization is also that research, yeah, we do cutting-edge research.

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We do, we make major breakthroughs, we publish in high quality journals internationally.

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But all that, our work, is also is aimed to translate it to impact.

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There's nothing we do, which is not short-term, or middle-term, or long-term, is not translated to impact.

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And products that reach the end user, which is the farmers and the beneficiaries in Africa and beyond.

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And so this really truly making science to work for people, for society.

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Speaker 1: Can you describe how important insects are for the future of humanity?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, excellent, very good question. Yeah, I think insects are really important for all our lives.

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Bees, I think bees. Europe and North America already knows now, because the bee population is going declining.

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Already knows that this is a problem, unless we solve this. Unless we take care of the house of the bees.

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So that one, I think it goes without saying. That if bees, if they don't exist today, tomorrow, we're in trouble.

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So that has to go on for the future.

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I think for the future also, that if we have to diversify our food source, feed source.

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And quality of protein, I think we have to mainstream the use of insects as food.

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So there is, there are a variety, more than 2,000 species of insects are consumed globally.

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And there are several of them in Africa. So people consume them, they go to the forest, they collect them seasonally.

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Often it is women and children who are tasked, who are given this task. To go to the forest and collect the insects.

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So sometimes when you collect them, so that you are going to, there is a tendency to over-harvest.

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And then you can cause some of these insects trouble, their role in balancing the, the atmosphere, the equilibrium.

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So, and, ICIPE has technology, the capability to mass-raise a lot of these species of insects.

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And so, I think we have to change the perception of people, globally.

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That insects, I mean, consuming insects, is not something out of the ordinary.

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Two billion people have successfully been traditionally consuming them. We have to do the mainstream also.

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So the conversion rate also, of feed, and insect protein, is a lot more efficient in insects.

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So with a very limited amount of feed, substrate insects, you can get high-quality protein.

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Compared to the same quality protein in beef, in cattle. So for climate change, also mitigation for, and so on.?

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So I think insects are more What more compatible I think, yeah. More susceptible

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Speaker 1: One of your research is actually published in article about locust.

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You could better eat a locust that eat the food they eat.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Why? Can you explain that? What was, what did you?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we have been working going them On a device insects also the protein

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and nutritional profile of these insects also, the number of insects that are being consumed traditionally.

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So we found that a lot of these insects actually have a higher or equivalent content of nutrition

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and protein to equivalent to fish and to beef. So that is a good finding.

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Locusts, so we published a recently about two months ago, a paper. Very exciting the finding.

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So locusts are really big pests.

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They go and they kind in they storm and they can completely wipe your crop in an overnight.

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They consume a lot of granary crops or any vegetation.

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But people also consumes them traditionally also in many parts of Africa and elsewhere.

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But what we found is that locust is that in a laboratory setting, that are feed on wheat seedlings.

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They convert the wheat seedlings may have very minute amount of steroids.

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These are chemicals that are very useful to our health.

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They reduce cholesterol, they do a lot of have a lot of benefit to health.

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And so the locusts as it consume and then they have, we don't know the mechanisms there yet,

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they have then capacity to convert this steroids 20 to 40 fold.

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So if you have diet, locust based diet all across in your life incorporated into your diet,

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that the chance of you having a cholesterol or a heart problem is much, much lower. So this is a an amazing finding.

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So, I think if more and more if we find the beneficial effect of insects as food.

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I think the perception of people will also change on incorporating insects into their diet sir.

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Speaker 1: What will insect research do for the future of Africa?

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Yeah, I think if we have effectively understand on, we are constantly understanding the insects, their physiologist,

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their ecologist, their mechanism. How they transmit the diseases, how they're fascinating creatures sir?

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Speaker 2: Creatures and if we understand that our better.

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If we know, then we identify then several cycles in their life cycles severalspots where,

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the weak spots where we can manage. So, I think we have to eradicate malaria.

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So, why can't we with all this technology? Not just us, but the global scientific community.

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Why can't we eradicate dengue?

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Why can't we eradicate sees flies that are causing a lot of problem both in humans and in animals?

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So, I think if we tackle all of these I think the future of Africa will be bright.

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It will be less problem to deal with.

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And so, a lot of the problems that you find in Africa, they're actually manageable, we can manage them,

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we can tackle them.

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So it's not so, yeah, we regularly make breakthroughs,

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we recently that the a young group of scientist this is are CPA in my organization.

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They discovered that certain mosquitoes, a certain population of the mosquitoes that transmit malaria.

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And about a very small portion of them we don't know why they harbor bacteria in their body.

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So those mosquitoes that harbor this bacteria, they are unable to transmit the malaria parasite.

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So that is a major, major discovery. So what we have to what we are doing is that why?

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What do this bacteria do to this insect making them resistant

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and incapable of transmitting the malaria transmitting the malaria parasite??

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And why only certain population, certain percentage of them, and the mosquito have it.

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So if we knows that, and if we are able to transmit this bacteria to a wider range of the mosquito population.

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It is possible to significantly reduce the malaria transmission.

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So there is a lot of things we can do, and make a difference in Africa and elsewhere.

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Speaker 1: People I talk to say you are in a hurry. What does that mean?

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Speaker 2: [LAUGH] I'm in a hurry. I"m in hurry. I'm very impatient.

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Yeah, because I think and I, if you talk to my staff also they'll tell you the same thing. I'm in a hurry.

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I'm pushing constantly.

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I'm impatient that is because I think we have to live our lives with a sense of urgency,

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because every day we live that tomorrow, we are about to finish today.

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Tomorrow we have one day less on our life, our lifetime. So, which means that we are not getting younger.

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So we have to rush in to make sure that we have actually make a difference in people's lives, that we have lived, also,

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our lives with a purpose. So, I think we shouldn't, I don't feel that I have to live for myself.

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No, I shouldn't live for myself. I should feel a sense of responsibility for my other fellow human beings.

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So that's why I'm in a hurry. I'm really in a hurry, yeah.

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Speaker 1: What's the goal?

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Speaker 2: I want to do something, I want to make a difference for people I want to,

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Speaker 2: To solve a problems for people who are not able to solve it themselves. And I think we are fortunate.

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As a scientist, I'm fortunate that I'm given this priceless knowledge and education.

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So I have to use it, to, use it to publish a paper, but only to really use, to solve people's problems, yeah.

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Speaker 1: What can science do for Africa, in this respect?

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Speaker 2: Science can do a lot of things for Africa, and for the rest of the world,

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I think We should be able to find solution for all our ailings.

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We should be finding vaccine for malaria, we should be finding vaccine for HIV/AIDS. We should be defeating cancer.

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So that's all possible I think. So science can do a lot of different things too for people and for the planet, yeah.

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Speaker 1: What can Africa do for science.

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Speaker 2: Africa can do a lot of things for science.

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I think that's an excellent question that no one has ever asked me. I think governments have to value the science.

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Technology is really important for the continent development for the people.

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So they have to value that, they have to invest significant proportion of their resources to science and technology

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and to other areas.

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Because I think the difference between my country and your country, which is my husband's country,

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is not a difference in our color, is not a difference in the location where we are, is a difference of capability

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and education.

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That investment, and the capability capacity of people to innovate, capacity of people to absorb new technologies,

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and to invent a lot of different things.

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If we don't do that, if Africa doesn't do that, it's never going to solve a lot of our problems.

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So how is that the Netherlands which has miserable weather and can produce a lot of food not only for their people

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but I think can produce a lot.

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And we have this beautiful weather, beautiful sunshine, and a lot of resources, water and everything else

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and we are not feeding ourselves. So it is again a capability issue for me, yeah.

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And knowledge and technology and I think Africa has to do that to enhance it's ability to do.

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Speaker 1: What can your institute do for Africa?

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Speaker 2: It simply does a lot of things for Africa.

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So we, environment work, as I have just said, we believe capacity is very critical.

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Capacity, at the end of the day, capacity is development. Development is all about capacity of people.

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So we have a very large capacity building unit. So every year, we see 100 to 150 graduate students all across Africa.

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They do their masters degree, their PhD degree and, so and then we train them..

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They are registered in many different universities but they do the research at this, [INAUDIBLE]

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And so we are enhancing the scientific capability of many African countries in insect science.

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But also we train also a lot of farmers in different things.

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We train in the technologies that they adapt from us and so on.

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So like this year, from January until October, ten months, is that? Is that ten months, yeah.

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Ten months that we trained more than 10,000 people in various different technologies.

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So this is begun, and we are a reluctantly small organization, okay? So I think this is a big contribution.

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So we also yeah our products go all across Africa, technologies they go.

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So one of the things which is difficult for us is to scale out the technologies to reach as many people as we can.

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So for example we have the technologies we are going to visit tomorrow in the field.

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Is absolutely fabulous technology, invented, created by and developed by superior and its partners.

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But this is a technology that is really needed all across Africa.

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But we are reaching only 10,000 to 20,000 farmers per year. But the technology is needed by millions of farmers.

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So, now we are changing our model and partnering with governments and with individuals

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and in the private sector to take the technology into accelerated and many different countries.

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And so yeah, this was, yeah.

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Speaker 1: You like to defend this case to many people, and share your thoughts with, wherever you can share,

298
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because you also go to the President of your country, your

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's very important for us to work with the governments

300
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and to fit also with their own strategy plan also. So, we kinda just work in isolation.

301
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So the Ethiopian government, for example, has a very clear strategy development plan.

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So they took a number of our, products and technologies, and they fit them into their strategy.

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So for one of our technologies, for example, they have a plan to reach minimum of 20,000 farmers with that technology,

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a year. So they are going to expand it themselves, I think, once you give them.

305
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And we do the technical backstopping, because it's a very knowledge intensive technology.

306
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So you have to train farmers how to use it. But it's a fabulous technology.

307
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And bee keeping also, that they utilize beekeeping and silk farming, anything insects, that we work on.

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Silk farming also is very needed. So it's not just only food security but also income generation.

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You want to improve the livelihood of people in various ways. It's not just only producing more food and that's it.

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But you want all sorts of diversify their income, rather this, the risk mitigation.

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So if you have a diverse income, you are not dependent on one. So you are releasing the risk also, yeah.

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Speaker 1: So what would be your ultimate scientific goal?

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's a big question. I think I have many goals, but I will make it a more doable one.

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So I think, so tomorrow you would see these field visits in the field.

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One of the critical problems in across Africa, in many countries is a parasitic weed called striga.

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It is a parasite on many cereal crops, on rice, on maize, on sorghum, on millet,

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all the staples that people need stable food.

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And basically this is a parasitic weed, it attaches itself to the roots of it's host of the maize or sorghum

319
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or whatever. It takes all the nutrients out from this. It cannot live without that host.

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And basically it ruins the crop.

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So if you have that it also produces thousands of seeds, tiny seeds, and it sheds into the soil.

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So once you have that it is really. The soil is basically unusable. So we have technologies that can eradicate that.

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So what I really would like to see in my lifetime is eradicating this weed from all across Africa. And it's possible.

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We have the technology, what is needed is to scale it out.

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To get a large number of partners and funders to say, okay, we are out to eradicate this

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and then we are going to solve a major problem, food security problem for Africa.

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I would like to see that within my lifetime, and I think it's doable, yeah.

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Speaker 1: How important are insects for a more sustainable world?

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Speaker 2: They are very important in many angles.

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They are important, if you manage them well, they are important in cleaning our environment.

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They are important in being the workhorse of farms. They are important as food sources.

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I mean, all these chickens that are sold as organic chicken, that are free-roaming in the farm, what do they dig?

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They go and dig, and they pick insects.

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So you can mass-produce that and produce bigger chicken in a more sustainable way.

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Fishery aquaculture, that is also, insects can play a critical role in a more sustainable production system.

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Speaker 2: So I can go on and on. I think they are really important, yeah. They are important.

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Speaker 1: Also in terms because you want a more sustainable Africa?

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, yeah.

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So I think they have even more so here, because we have a myriad of diversity of insects.

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As diversity of our ecological zones are big, there are varieties, there are a lot of different plants all year round.

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So a lot of these insects also, they rely on plant sugar source as their thing.

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Mosquitoes, so you see, many people don't know, mosquitoes, they don't just go and take my blood and they live on that.

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They need specific also to sustain them, specific plant nectar as source of sugar.

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Insects, more so for Africa, because of our diversity of ecology, diversity of plants, diversity of things.

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We keep discovering new things.

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This year alone, we discovered and published, our taxonomists and partners,

347
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15 different new wasps which have never been described in anywhere in the world.

348
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And some of them, they are also beneficial because they feed on harmful insects.

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We have discovered, also, in Mbita, where we are going tomorrow,

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one of our scientists has discovered that there is a jumping spider that is attracted only to mosquitoes that are

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filled with human blood. So, and they jump and they feed on those insects.

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If you give them other insects, they wouldn't touch it. They go specifically for those type of mosquitoes.

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But they are, those mosquitoes,

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that specific jumping spider also requires a certain plant sugar source to sustain it also between its meals of

355
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mosquitoes, blood-filled mosquitoes. We call it vampire spider.

356
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So what it means is also that if you keep those type of plants in your habitat,

357
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you are going to manage also to keep equilibrium,

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also that you are maintaining the spiders that feed on your mosquitoes,

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that will be less mosquitoes to transmit malaria. So our world is not in black and white, it's not in boxes.

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It's all a continuum.

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So we have to manage it as a continuum, to make it very sustainable and very natural for the future.

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So if you cause imbalance by eliminating a certain type of insects from a certain type of plants,

363
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then you are causing an imbalance in your environment.

364
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Speaker 1: What would be the way to go for Africa in this respect?

365
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I mean, you have, let's say, the European agricultural system, or like the USA's doing it.

366
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Is that the way for Africa to go for, or, you're welcome to say-

367
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is an excellent question, but also a complicated question. And so you can debate it either way.

368
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You can debate it either way because, one, so for example, generally,

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60% to 70% of the population in Africa is engaged in agriculture.

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I don't think that is a smart way, to keep that large proportion of your population in farming.

371
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So if you go to Europe, North America and Canada, you have about 4% or 5% of the population.

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So it is very inefficient to have 70% of your population to feed the rest. So this is not efficient way to do it.

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So we have to do it better. So, also, I think scientific technology alone is not going to do the trick.

374
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So we have to have the right policy. We have to have the right environment to do these things. Why do I say policy?

375
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Policy is important in this, because there has to be the right policy to land, and access to land, access to resources.

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So if you take a,

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Speaker 2: For example, many African countries, without mentioning any specific country, you have land,

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the farmer has to begin with very small land. So, they have, the farmer may have six, seven children. Farmer dies.

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The six, seven children split the land. So, neither one of them can make a living out of that small pieces of land.

380
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So we have to have a policy to stop fragmenting the land to small pieces, because you cannot make a living out of it.

381
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You cannot transform agriculture with small pieces. You cannot do a lot of different things also.

382
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So there has to be a policy also that is favorable to,

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Speaker 2: To enabling transformation of agriculture. We should be able to How this more was less.

384
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So and we have to make our agriculture is more efficient in utilization.

385
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And so also a large proportion of our farming system is rain fed. That's also not a sustainable way.

386
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To wait for rain waiting in the sky for a drop of water to drop, that's not a smart way to do.

387
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And only 4% of our land is, or the farmer land, is irrigated, and yet we have a lot of water flowing,

388
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you have a lot of also water being wasted also.

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So there's a lot of different things that we have to do to transform our farming system.

390
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So, having said that, I don't believe that one model alone is a the model for Africa.

391
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So it is not may not be of European model, but there are a lot of things we can borrow from, adapt from the European.

392
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A land policy, a access to these, so our efficiency in farming, and so on.

393
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So it's not a black and white concept I cannot give you that, yeah.

394
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But what I know is that we can not continue keeping a large population percentage of our population in farming,

395
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that's just not doable there, or sustainable.

396
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Speaker 1: Can you imagine a future where insect knowledge, knowledge about insects,

397
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will be sort of export products for Africa?

398
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Speaker 2: Yes, actually, yes. There are a-

399
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Speaker 1: Maybe you can repeat my question.

400
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay.

401
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Speaker 1: What kind of future do insect have for-

402
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Speaker 2: Yeah, so can Africa use insects as export product? Yes, absolutely, I believe so.

403
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This is not actually even something for the long run, but it's already short term.

404
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There are companies that have already exploring to establish a plant here in Africa to produce mass rare insects for

405
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feed to Europe and somewhere else. So, yeah this is going to happen in the near future actually, yeah.

406
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Speaker 1: Maybe you can sort of give a compressed answer on how important insects are in terms of danger.

407
00:51:05,13 --> 00:51:11,06
Like what you said, there are many deaths caused by insects infectually,

408
00:51:11,39 --> 00:51:16,23
many more deaths by malaria than there are any other kind of.

409
00:51:16,23 --> 00:51:19,82
And there's also the beneficial things, so a little bit of compressed, kind of answer?

410
00:51:19,82 --> 00:51:23,32
Speaker 2: But repeated to what I said?

411
00:51:23,32 --> 00:51:24,32
Speaker 1: Yep.

412
00:51:24,32 --> 00:51:24,99
Speaker 2: Okay.

413
00:51:24,99 --> 00:51:37,05
Speaker 1: So if you would have to tell a nice story about what insects do mean for us, what would be your storyline?

414
00:51:37,05 --> 00:51:49,27
Speaker 2: Yeah, bees are very very important for humankind. So we have to protect bees without a doubt.

415
00:51:49,93 --> 00:52:01,87
So we have to make sure that they are healthy, and they live nicely, happily, and there are many ways to do that.

416
00:52:02,2 --> 00:52:12,42
So, and they need to have good pollen plant source and so on.

417
00:52:12,5 --> 00:52:17,35
So bees are number one, I think they are among the top which we need to do.

418
00:52:18,85 --> 00:52:23,66
Natural predators, predator insects are very important, as well.

419
00:52:23,66 --> 00:52:32,75
Predators that feed on harmful insects, that are harmful to people, to animals. Those are important, as well.

420
00:52:33,47 --> 00:52:41,57
So, but I think we have to also pay attention and try to eradicate

421
00:52:41,57 --> 00:52:54,8
or find a solution also to the myriad of major diseases that are transmitted by insects, mosquitos.

422
00:52:54,8 --> 00:53:09,11
Speaker 2: That transmit malaria, that transmit dengue, that transmit also a number of other disease both in animals

423
00:53:09,4 --> 00:53:16,66
and humans. Rift Valley fever and yellow fever and a number of other disease, those are important.

424
00:53:17,26 --> 00:53:21,98
For Africa, Tsetse fly, Tsetse flies are really critical.

425
00:53:23,1 --> 00:53:38,85
Many many fertile land in Africa has become abandoned by people because of the Tsetse fly infestation.

426
00:53:40,2 --> 00:53:41,7
So these also are very important.

427
00:53:42,13 --> 00:53:50,47
All of these things I have described the those are our focus for icipe, my organization, to do.

428
00:53:51,2 --> 00:53:57,15
So these are some of the important things I think. We work on ticks also.

429
00:53:57,15 --> 00:54:05,66
Ticks, and tick borne diseases, these are not just Africa problem, but this is a Europe, North America has a problem.

430
00:54:05,66 --> 00:54:12,96
And we have products in the pipeline, that are very effective, natural products from plants,

431
00:54:12,96 --> 00:54:14,91
from other microbes used in Africa.

432
00:54:15,69 --> 00:54:23,61
So I think the beauty of it is Africa has a lot of these problem, insect problem that also,

433
00:54:24,08 --> 00:54:27,84
a lot of also solutions also for controlling this.

434
00:54:27,92 --> 00:54:34,11
So for all these problems that I have indicated, like Tsetse flies, we have a product, for example,

435
00:54:34,33 --> 00:54:38,86
which came from wildlife, wild animals in Africa.

436
00:54:38,86 --> 00:54:45,73
Speaker 1: Somehow, I have the feeling that your institute has a lot of hidden treasures, I don't know,

437
00:54:45,73 --> 00:54:45,9
but that [CROSSTALK]

438
00:54:45,9 --> 00:54:49,25
Speaker 2: Yes, we do, yeah, absolutely, yes.

439
00:54:49,25 --> 00:54:50,07
Speaker 1: Can you repeat it?

440
00:54:50,07 --> 00:55:03,34
Speaker 2: Yeah, and icipe, I think, has a lot of important, unique treasures that are not widely known.

441
00:55:05,26 --> 00:55:15,9
But I think now also we are making a tremendous effort for the rest of the world to know what we are capable of doing,

442
00:55:16,08 --> 00:55:17,03
and what we have.

443
00:55:17,54 --> 00:55:27,48
So and I think also, I have to also indicate that icipe does, it also work with a lot of partners globally.

444
00:55:28,15 --> 00:55:37,66
So we have more than 300 partners in Europe, North America, Asia, Latin America, and elsewhere,

445
00:55:38,22 --> 00:55:41,9
including the Netherlands we have a lot of partners, so yeah.

446
00:55:41,9 --> 00:55:45,19
Speaker 1: But how do you get this treasures yourself into the world?

447
00:55:45,19 --> 00:55:50,92
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a critical writing, it's critical to scale out what we have,

448
00:55:51,12 --> 00:56:00,83
so that the rest of the planet can, and Africa can, make use of what we have at a faster rate.

449
00:56:01,29 --> 00:56:06,8
And that is a challenge, that's a big challenge Because a research organization is a research organization,

450
00:56:07,11 --> 00:56:17,67
and it's very difficult for a research organization to scale out and to reach out to a global forum, a global platform.

451
00:56:19,07 --> 00:56:25,19
And so partners become very important and funding becomes important, too.

452
00:56:25,41 --> 00:56:29,48
So funding, our funding, we are not a government organization,

453
00:56:29,8 --> 00:56:34,96
we are international organization that happen to be based in Kenya.

454
00:56:35,93 --> 00:56:47,84
So the funding comes from a lot of sources, so the European Union is among our largest investors, donors.

455
00:56:48,74 --> 00:56:55,02
The governments of Germany, of Sweden, of Switzerland and UK,

456
00:56:55,02 --> 00:57:01,87
many foundations they provide funding for us to make [INAUDIBLE] make a change.

457
00:57:02,13 --> 00:57:10,27
So all these resources I think have to be made available, not just for Africa,

458
00:57:10,48 --> 00:57:12,81
but for I think the rest of the planet as well.

459
00:57:12,93 --> 00:57:20,55
Because this is also, we are using the funds of the taxpayers of Europe and North America

460
00:57:20,56 --> 00:57:26,16
and so on also to generate these things, these products and find solution for constraints.

461
00:57:26,16 --> 00:57:36,38
Speaker 1: A totally other question, if you would have to describe your philosophy of life, what would it be?

462
00:57:36,38 --> 00:57:41,41
What do you look for yourself and humanity and the future?

463
00:57:41,41 --> 00:57:53,02
Speaker 2: Yeah, philosophy of life, I think for me, my motto personality is, and I tell my daughter also.

464
00:57:53,32 --> 00:57:59,95
I have one daughter, who is going to be a scientist also, she just joined a university in America, first year.

465
00:58:00,66 --> 00:58:06,72
So, my motto is live life with a purpose, not just for yourself,

466
00:58:06,72 --> 00:58:17,91
but really to contribute to changing lives for those people who are less fortunate than we are.

467
00:58:17,99 --> 00:58:24,22
And I think there are millions of people who don't have the skills or the resources that we have.

468
00:58:24,83 --> 00:58:31,34
So it will be a tragedy for any humankind to live for himself or herself.

469
00:58:31,99 --> 00:58:39,49
Like, if I have a good life myself, yeah the rest is like, okay.

470
00:58:40,13 --> 00:58:45,59
So I think we have to, if we see suffering of a fellow human being, we have to suffer together.

471
00:58:46,09 --> 00:58:56,59
We have to feel their pain. So, and I think if we have the mindset and the skills, we should do it.

472
00:58:56,85 --> 00:58:59,46
We should make use of it, yeah, certainly, yeah.

473
00:58:59,46 --> 00:59:02,93
Speaker 1: And can you say that science is changing,

474
00:59:04,19 --> 00:59:11,33
because our knowledge is spreading out quicker than ever around the planet, you see that?

475
00:59:11,33 --> 00:59:27,37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, whether science is making a difference to the planet at a pace that we want,

476
00:59:28,28 --> 00:59:33,61
that is questionable, I don't have yes or no answer.

477
00:59:33,78 --> 00:59:41,12
However, I know that our lives have tremendously changed because of contributions of science.

478
00:59:41,73 --> 00:59:51,19
If you just back several decades back before the invention of antibiotics,

479
00:59:52,31 --> 01:00:02,81
before we had access to the first antibiotic, penicillin, which was accidentally discovered from a mold from a fungus.

480
01:00:02,81 --> 01:00:10,16
Speaker 2: Before that people were dying from very simple treatable things, from an infection.

481
01:00:10,16 --> 01:00:18,09
Speaker 2: So that's not the case any more.

482
01:00:19,26 --> 01:00:30,14
And then since the discovery of penicillin a lot of range of antibiotics were discovered from microbes, from plants,

483
01:00:30,37 --> 01:00:38,9
from other sources. So yes, science has made a tremendous difference for us.

484
01:00:39,43 --> 01:00:45,77
The vaccines, Polio is almost eradicated, so here and there only.

485
01:00:46,24 --> 01:00:54,77
Vaccines, people were dying from a lot of preventive disease, but the tragedy of it is even to this day,

486
01:00:54,77 --> 01:01:01,53
Speaker 2: Preventable diseases are still killing people in the developing world today.

487
01:01:01,53 --> 01:01:07,15
People are dying from infection, because they don't have access to simple antibiotics.

488
01:01:08,04 --> 01:01:11,66
Or they didn't have the means or the knowledge that [INAUDIBLE]

489
01:01:12,14 --> 01:01:20,84
if they vaccinate the kids at a certain age that they will prevent [INAUDIBLE] diseases.

490
01:01:20,95 --> 01:01:27,22
To this day, myself, I don't know what I have been vaccinated. I don't think I have been vaccinated when I was a kid.

491
01:01:28,4 --> 01:01:34,19
This is the world we live, the haves and the have-nots, and the gaps, so big difference, yeah?

492
01:01:34,19 --> 01:01:39,69
But, yes, science has made a tremendous, tremendous difference in our lives, yeah.

493
01:01:40,23 --> 01:01:45,53
And I think it will continue doing it, but I think governments have to value science.

494
01:01:47,54 --> 01:01:55,17
Not only in Africa, but globally, and do significant investment or so in science and technologies, so yeah.